static timing/points adjustment

[The gizmo]

hello all. im working on my 78 xs and its been 2 years in the making. im at a point now where im in the reassemble process. when I purchased the bike I rode it home from the sale. I then rode it to a shop where they were suppose to be performing some electrical work for me. long story short after a year and a half and no results from the shop I took the bike back and have been addressing all the issues myself. I was not familiar, by any means, with the ignition system on the bike and was doing some work on the harness to install new turn signals and repair some other non working items. I had the key in the on position and did not know that the points would charge the ignition coils and the coils got very hot and the points got burnt. I did as much research as I could find and read that I could just possibly sand/file the points to try to correct that particular issue. after sanding them and checking for spark I found that at spark plugs the spark was very weak and when trying to start the bike it would crank a few times and back fire, thus leading me to believe that I had either faulty points and/or ignition coils. I have a new set of points and a set of used ignition coils that seem to be in working order. I tried to put just the coils on and check spark again and it seems that there was almost no spark at all. im in the process of changing the points and will check again after. the issue im currently having is trouble finding any detailed how to's on replacing the points and setting the timing statically. ive been through many topics on this forum and have found some detail on what to do but nothing that helps me understand thoroughly I guess. my question is, can any one possible describe in detail how to do the static timing and set the points there after. I under stand that there are the plates and that screws have to be loosened and then turning the engine clockwise to find the f1 and f2 marks and checking with a dwell meter or timing light before snugging the screws back down. however I am not sure which screws to loosen for which side. once that is set then points are to be set? what is the gapping suppose to be on the points? any and all help is highly appreciated. if pictures could even be provided so I know what to look for that would be awesome as well. thanks for reading this long ass post and I apologize if my terminology and understanding of this is sub par. im still a newb with this bike

[guylr]

Do you have the service manual?  Without it require quite a bit of typing to talk you through the timing.

Guy

[The gizmo]

I do have a manual for it. I believe it is one of the supplementary manuals that just gives basic information of the bike and a wiring diagram. ill have to thumb through it when I get home. stand by

[The gizmo]

Ok so I just have the supplement manual. I did however find the pdf downloads on the forum for the shop manual. Hopefully following that will be my ticket to success

[guylr]

Great, give it a go and if you get stuck let us know.

Guy

[The gizmo]

so I haven't attempted to tackle it yet, I do have a solid idea of what needs to be done. the only question I currently have is that im swapping out the old points for new. when I take them off do I gap them immediately after replacment before setting the plates or set the plates first then gap the points?

[The gizmo]

I retract my previous question. I referenced the manual and answered my own question...

[The gizmo]

so I took a shot at the static timing last night with no success. so to my understanding the way it is done is by setting the points gaps then loosening the left point adjustment screw, rotate the engine clockwise until the 1f mark lines up and snug the screw. then loosen the 2 adjustment screws for the cylinder 2 points and turn the engine until 2f mark then tighten them?

[guylr]

You're  getting close. Do set the gaps on both points first. I've found that they like to be on the tight side, 0.013" to 0.014" at the most at their widest opening. Then rotate the engine so that the fixed pointer lines up with the left F mark and then loosen the point breaker plate screw and turn the plate while using and test light or ohm meter attached to he left point wire and ground until the points open. Tighten the screws and check to  see if the points still open while turning the engine just as the pointer lines up with the F mark. If it doesn't, readjust the point plate until it does. Then go on to the right side points which adjust independently of the left. Rotate the engine until the pointer lines up with the right side F mark then loosen the two right points adjusting screws and move the points until they just open then tighten the screws and retest and readjust as needed. You must have a sensitive ohm meter or test light to know when the points open. To check for advance while running you need to use a stroboscopic timing light.

Guy

[The gizmo]

So I spent a few hours trying to get it dialed in. The problem I seem to be having is that when I set the points gaps and then move it to the f mark for cylinder one, I can move the points plate to a max adjustment in either direction and it isnt quite far enough to get the timing marks to line up as the points are open. The cam lobe seem to be on closed side. I swapped it 180 out and it gets closer. But that fact that I had to swap the lobe to get it closer baffles me. When I bought the bike I rode it home. So clearly it had spark and ran. The only thing that I believe changed the bikes ability to spark is the points got burnt while I was trying to rewire lights in and didnt know they charge when closed. So I have new points installed for this timing process. Idk why I cant get it so the points open at the f mark....

[guylr]

Try setting the gap on the left side points to the minimum spec, 0.012'". The feeller gauge should have a light pressure on it as you pull it through and the next size up should be a no go.

Guy

[The gizmo]

hmm...not sure if its something im not doing correctly or the timing just doesn't want to fall in place. I still cant get the points to be open at their widest at the firing marks. I need maybe a 1/4-1/8 inch more of turning that whole plate for them to be open at their widest with everything lined up correctly. would there be any negative impact on the bikes ability to run properly if I widen those notches in the plate with a dremmel tool to gain that extra adjustment?

[guylr]

You have me a bit confused also by trying to have them open at their widest at the fire marks. The points should actually be at their smallest opening at the fire marks. The "breaker points" are called that because they open at the fire mark and break the primary circuit in the ignition coil at that moment. So they will be closed right up until that exact point where the fire mark reaches the pointer. When they open the primary circuit current stops and the magnetic flux field in the coil collapses which induces a strong surge of current in the secondary coil windings which feeds the spark plug.

Guy

[The gizmo]

so as the firing mark reaches the fixed mark they are still not fully open. they will be open fully and "breaking" the contact after the firing mark has passed. they are very slightly open at the firing mark

[guylr]

If they open just a small amount then current isn't flowing through the points. They have to open exactly as the mark lines up with the pointer.  Are you trying to do this without an ohm meter or test light? You can't just eyeball it.

Guy